It served as the backbone of the Romulan fleet during the later half of the 24th century." If they have even a quarter of the territory the Federation does, there's a lot more races and species in that empire than Romulans. If they're big enough to have a decent amount of space, it seems likely they either befriend people, conquer people, or eradicate people. [–]queenofmoonsCommander 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children). I should've clarified. That means greater forward firepower over a Galaxy with relatively equal power generation. The Warbird of the D'deridex class is a huge starship used by the Romulans in the 2360s and 2370s. This gives the D'deridex a marked advantage against the Federation's Galaxy class. I've watched the same footage and I don't see Disruptor shots being twice as powerful as Type X phasers. [–]fearsomehandof4 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children), [–]queenofmoonsCommander 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children). use the following search parameters to narrow your results: The Daystrom Research Institute is a subreddit dedicated to in-depth discussion of Star Trek. The torpedo launchers are as good as those carried on the Galaxy class but the Romulan ship carries twice as many launchers. Bots and novelty accounts will be banned on sight. Some particularly friendly species may have something close to full citizenship, while others may simply be archeological remnants on the world(s) they occupied. Sure they may have a couple hundred Battleships and the like but when its put black on white, its possible that the Klingons could defeat them IF they knew how many troops and ships they actually have. Interesting idea, though we are never given information that would make them out to be focused on conquest, nor are we ever told that there is a disparity in the Empire between races or species. Picard and other Federation captains probably came to similar conclusions, although we know Federation policy to lean heavily towards avoiding conflicts even if the Feds should be favored to win them. We know they want to protect their citizens and territories, but every empire will do that. There are a couple of things that might suggest that the Romulans aren't that bastardly as long as they think that you're really with them. This subreddit contains spoilers for all of Star Trek, including the latest episodes of Discovery. [–]fearsomehandof4 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children). defintion does seem to support my statement, [–]biffpowCrewman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child), "The Prime Directive is not just a set of rules; it is a philosophy... and a very correct one. There's a great doc on Netflix called "Crossing the Line" about an American defector to North Korea that covers similar territory. I'm trying to think of an affiliation in Trek that doesn't befriend, conquer, or eradicate people, the best I can come up with is the Ferengi. [–]General_FearChief Petty Officer 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children). No insults, personal attacks, or general rudeness in the Daystrom Institute. I agree. I feel as though they'd view capturing territory as more trouble than it would be worth in the end. It was approximately 1 042 meters in length and 285 meters high with a crew of approximately 1500. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. Nazi armor doctrine can be summed up as either grouping up all the armor for a blitzkrieg or separating into single tanks and waiting for allied forces to tank joust 1 on 1 with. It prohibits the Federation (and by proxy, Starfleet) from interfering with the advancement of less-developed alien civilizations. To nominate a post or comment for Post of the Week, reply to the post or comment and write "M-5, nominate this for X.". Contrast this with the thousands of Starships we know the Federation has. I don't think they'd engage in preemptive genocide. The D'deridex-class warbird was the last new ship designed by Andrew Probert for the show, his design sketch of 21 March 1988 receiving the approval of the producers. The prompt can be explicit in the form of a question, or implicit in the form of a theory or analysis to be critiqued. Are Romulan shields as easy to reconfigure into newly resistant configuration, like Starfleet seems to do most times it gets in a fight? 3) Let's not forget that, unlike the Federation, the Romulans are an Empire. 1) We have no idea how many Warbirds they have. [–]williams_482Chief Engineer 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children). Since the Federation is strong, they don't attack. Hmmm, but in that case why would the Federation allow any confirmation to take place? (TNG: "The Neutral Zone") Over the next ten years, these warbirds, under the command of both the Romulan military and the Tal Shiar, participated in numerous encounters with Starfleet and the Dominion. The D'deridex-class Romulan warbird: Star Trek's not-so-jolly green giant. Very insightful. [–]whenhaveiever 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child). Regardless of the variable size shown on screen, this illustrates the original intent in terms of relative size of the two ships. During the DW we see dozens and dozens of ships destroyed, but there are always more to be had. selecting your division by clicking the 'edit flair' link in the sidebar. Very true. We know from 'Tin Man' that the Galaxy is faster, and has sensors that don't infrequently penetrate Romulan cloaks, which together suggest that Starfleet gets to choose where and when to fight- a not inconsiderable advantage. The biggest indicator of that comes from the design of their very own D'Deridex Warbirds, the face and fist of the Romulan fleet. We see an example in another episode where a human had expatriated to Romulus. There would be no honor in peaceful coexistence when you're a race of warriors. That we have no real evidence of, but I'm kinda doubting it. A good chunk of the Romulan military's job would always be monitoring their subject populations, something Starfleet doesn't have to care about, which would give them an edge in any sort of war. Shakespeare’s Hamlet is a comedy in Klingon culture, Garak never rejoined Tain; an examination of Garak’s true motivations in “Improbable Cause” and “The Die Is Cast.”. [–]williams_482Chief Engineer 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children). There are different classes. While Starfleet's job is primarily exploration, The Romulan fleet's would be primarily for security. Although the exact definition of "crippled" there seems to be 70% loss of combat shields; otherwise, the ship seems operational, but Picard dare not confront the Romulans without the shields. Conversely, the Romulans probably don't have a Prime Directive or sovereign systems enclaved within its territory. [–]Mirror_SybokChief Petty Officer 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children). The design was based on the successful bird-of-prey of the 22nd century. They aren't twice as powerful. their tanks also had a greater tendency to self combust than allied armor and weren't able to use European bridges because of size and weight. The Galaxy is a "multi-mission explorer" while the D'deridex is pretty much a straight warship from everything I've seen on TV. And it should be noted that when the Klingons abrogated Khitomer, then later re-signed, nobody brought up subject populations, and the Khitomer accords were simply put back into effect with no apparent changes. No memes, jokes, and other shallow content. If they have even a quarter of the territory the Federation does, there's a lot more races and species in that empire than Romulans. Of course, we also run into a timeline quandary there. That the Warbird can cause so much damage to a Galaxy in such short order would most likely come from a forward weapon biass. Speaking of which, by your definition of Empire (not that I'm disagreeing with it), the Federation would be even more of an Empire. In other words while they have the technology and willpower to militarily compete with the other 2 great powers of the Apha quadrant they simply lack the numbers. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. I'm not sure I'd characterize the Federation's relationship with Cardassia as diplomatic (at least not in DS9; in TNG, we see a rudimentary effort towards that) so much as adversarial. The Caretaker and the Ocampa. NP. Disagreement often fosters rich discussion, but only when it's done respectfully. On the other hand a Sovereign has more then three times the forward firepower of a Galaxy as well as superior shields and armor. These stories would lose their excitement if the viewer knew which ship would win. Though equipped with numerous weapons and housing a contingent of Scorpion Fighters, the original Scimitar’s key feature was the ability to utilize thalaron radiation as a terrifying weapon. Spock wasn't allowed to do his work. 3) Let's not forget that, unlike the Federation, the Romulans are an Empire. [–][deleted] 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (3 children), [–]dirk_frogChief Petty Officer 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (2 children), Performance: Warp 9.6 for 12 hours (Standard); warp 9.9 for 12 hours (Uprated), Armament: Eleven type-X phaser emitters; two photon torpedo launchers, Armament: Six ship-mounted disruptors; two photon torpedo launchers. Even when they were trying to destabilize Vulcan, it was mostly through trickery and not outright demonstrations of power. I'm referring to TNG, during the majority of which they're still holding Bajor as a hostile occupying force, as opposed to DS9 when they've cleared out. They will cling to and broadcast any genuine shred of evidence that the Federation isn't all they are cracked up to be, because they need everything they can get to convince their people to go back to being proudly subservient Romulans. They didn't like how the Cardassians treated the Bajorans, but it didn't stop them from having a diplomatic relationship with them. If you are looking for a more general Trek forum, we recommend /r/startrek. This says to me that the non-Romulans within the Empire aren't members or citizens, they're subjects, taken by conquest. The Galaxy Class was a failure for Starfleet, as they paid the price for a heavy cruiser/battleship, but got an oversized explorer instead. they even had a tendency to put medium tank engines in new heavy tanks, compounding the combustion problem and increasing breakdowns. At the end of Voyager, in the timeline created by Admiral Janeway, does the 7-year-old USS Voyager get turn into a museum like the 23-year old ship did in her timeline? the allies on the other hand used multiple-tank battle groups in conjunction with infantry. Posts which fall outside the Posting Guidelines which have not been approved by the Senior Staff—including meta threads—will be removed. [–]Zhaobowen 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (1 child). This is a video showcasing the Romulan D'deridex Warbird, one of the most feared vessels of The Next Generation era. A real defector, though, who's got family and history that can be verified on the other side of the line? 1995 Hallmark Keepsake Star Trek The Next Generation Romulan Warbird and the 1993 Hallmark Keepsake Star Trek The Next Generation U.S.S. Sure, it was war time, and they were a little desperate, but I think it reinforces the point: What happens in a foreign state stays there. The Galaxy class starship has 100% weapons coverage in the form of phasers and photon torpedoes (65 megaton anti matter bombs), and is capable of launching in its non separated state 20 independently targetable photon torpedoes simultaneously (10 per tube), … I just don't see how this ship is 'Twice the Power' . 4 As such they are not a big threat to the Federation, they could do damage but they are by far more vulnerable than Starfleet or the Klingon Empire. Seems pretty likely the Klingons do the same thing, judging by how they tried to treat the Organians. Was the Cardassian Union peaceful, possibly even neutral, before the 24th century? We mostly see a few extreme examples from a specific portion of their population. It may be bigger, but slower and few weapons. In other words the Romulans postulate kinda like an Owl or other Birds of Prey wanting to make sure they seem bigger than they are. [–]bluejeans90210[S] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children). [–]DevilGuyChief Petty Officer 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children). Though there's some confusion on whether they're a subspecies that rose from the proto-Romulans, or a separate native species that might have interbred with the proto-Romulans. Maybe one side has a 70-30 edge, but that hypothetical 30% chance of you and your crew being blasted to atoms and strewn across space is still more than enough to make you reconsider going in guns blazing over a minor border dispute. As u/tanithryudo noted, the only possible evidence we have for how Romulans treat non-Romulans in their space is the Remans, but we really don't know what they are. That does strike me as a propaganda victory over the Federation than them actually wanting to take him in, though. Sorry if this question was already asked, but even if we accept that a D'deridex-class warbird was 1,041 meters long, it still has several times the internal space of a Galaxy-class starship, itself having 35% unused internal space that can be used for mission-specific equipment.. Bajor is being groomed to join the Federation; Cardassia isn't interested and hasn't been asked. That seems like a lot. C $53.32. The ship is twice as long as a Federation Galaxy class, with an advantage in fire power, but a lower maximum speed. It's probably pretty far down the list. Discover gorgeous Enterprise vs romulan warbird canvas prints. Further evidence is shown in the total firepower output per unit time of a Galaxy class, which is immensely superior to that of a Warbird. Could just be volume. The power source is an artificial quantum singularity. Indeed, the notes about how burly the Warbird is might have had that in mind. Tactics? Actually, ever since the Times did an expose on the relative vulnerability of the Sherman to German armor in 1945, the Sherman has been a regular topic of discussion at both war colleges and business schools about conceptualizing appropriate technology as possibly being distinct from superior technology. We actually don't have much screen canon to tell us what life for most Romulans and non-Romulans is really like. (TOS novel: Vulcan's Heart, ST reference: Star Trek: Starship Spotter) The class was extremely successful and soo… On the other hand if they feel like there's any chance that you can do anything other than minor harm the best you can hope for is a chilly arms-length relationship. [–]Mirror_SybokChief Petty Officer 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children). Now, we obviously don't have much of any information on what life is like as a non-Romulan species or planet under the Romulan Empire, but we've seen their senate, and there's nobody there with non-pointed ears. I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. I'm sure the Federation does have more, but I'd imagine that's because it's bigger. All of which is naked speculation about magic technology- but encounters between the -D and the Romulans certainly seem shaped around a conceit that while the Warbird might be a big, scary, novel development, and a bigger combatant, a one-on-one brawl is going to be mutually horrific. Similarly, the thought put into the Gustav 80cm was nil and reflected the deep nazi misunderstanding of logistics and the air game. Well, the real reason I refer to them as an Empire is because it's in their name, and they seem to refer to themselves as such. Enormous, non-agile ships would be ideal for that. Per Memory Alpha and Beta, "The warbird design referred to as D'deridex-class, B-type warbird, or Warbird class was one of the largest and most powerful mainstays of the Romulan Star Empire. The links for nominating and voting are in a banner at the top of the subreddit, along with the current Post of the Week and links to nominate and vote. Captain's aptitude? American settlers and their treatment of Native people has always been my go-to for this one. In that day and age they could genetically and cosmetically alter any loyal Romulan (or Romulans) and have them play out that Expatriate game if they just wanted to generate propaganda. Descriptive titles are important because this is a text-only subreddit. Is it ever explained or implied why the Prophets would encourage Kai Opaka to permanently maroon herself on a Gamma penal colony? [–]biffpowCrewman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children). (The Art of Star Trek, p. 83) On his design, Probert later remarked: Experimenting with the vertical design concept, Probert further elaborated on his design process, "I didn't have any information except that the Romulans were coming back and that we had never see… Interesting thought, though the OP is making the (arguable) presumption that Romulus wants to take over the Federation. They take obvious pleasure in antagonizing the Federation at every turn. Some allies, [–]biffpowCrewman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children). The Daystrom Institute has built up a wealth of material in its years-long history, which you can read in our Previous Discussions pages. It can reach high warp speeds, and is equipped with disruptor cannons and a cloacking device. But then, they aren't what I think anyone would consider an "empire". Unfortunately, we don't have much on whether the Romulans are expansionist or not, but I kind of doubt it. This was the best moment of all those episodes, and it worked because you never knew which ship was better. To discuss the latest episode of Star Trek: Discovery, use the dedicated thread on the front page. It seems the Romulan Empire NEEDS these methods in order to survive and grow. Aliens might be allowed to exist in their space, but I'm sure they know their place. You've got the impression the Galaxy class has inferior technology to the D'deridex. Just because you have the biggest toughest ship, even a lot of them, doesn't mean you're going to win if the other guy has an industrial base roughly twice the size of yours. Well, I think it's reasonable to believe that they would think of themselves as superior, but that doesn't mean that being genuinely friendly is off the table. Because the Federation doesn't care nearly as much about this as the Romulans do, and that sort of coverup is antithetical to their cultural values and risks damaging their reputation as honest diplomats. Your point about the Klingons is a good one, but the Federation is bound by the Khitomer Accords for most of the combined series. the biggest difference between the armor was price point (a tiger cost as much as an American main bomber) so you were correct there, but nazi armor tended to be weaker per cm by the end of the war because of resource desperation causing degrading steel quality. REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc. π Rendered by PID 5658 on r2-app-08031350a19beb1ef at 2021-03-17 17:44:52.986326+00:00 running 79587ec country code: FR. The D'deridex was supposedly the pinnacle of Romulan warships when it was introduced, however it comes away with an appalling combat record for such a vaunted ship. – Jean-Luc Picard, Stardate 2364 ("Symbiosis"), [–]butterhoscotchCrewman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children), [–]stratusmonkeyCrewman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child). [–]butterhoscotchCrewman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children). edit- Thank you for the comments. Put effort into your submissions, and do not submit comments intended to end a discussion. The D'deridex-class was the successor to the Amarcan-class warbird of the 2340s decade and the War Eagle-class, enlarging its double-hull design and correcting some weaknesses which had become evident in the older vessels. From there, I realized that for all the scrutiny that has been visited upon the Galaxy-class, very little has been visited upon one of it's primary rivals: The D'deridex-class warbird. Soviet Typhoon-class ballistic missile submarines (of Red October fame) were the largest ever built, but they hardly ever put to sea, being fraught with maintenance issues their snarled economy couldn't afford. So in conclusion, their military power, while respectable, is not that big. I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. For the same reason America beat Japan in the Pacific during WW2, despite Japan building the biggest most capable battleship in history (2 of them actually). The Warbird is rated at aproximately equal to the Galaxy class in terms of firepower. Is the Romulan economy twice is big? I tend to prefer the novel continuity on that too, and have always imagined the Romulans viewing the Remans in the same way the British view the Welsh. The stink the investigation raised led to Congress doling out more dough to get the Pershing to the field sooner, so great was the distaste for American soldiers being outgunned in one on one engagements. Who knows what that means for the number of species in the Empire? One would imagine that it would be blasted across the Neutral Zone by the Romulans if such a thing happened, and the Federation News Service would quickly be able to confirm it. I just want to nitpick a bit and say that in Nemesis, Shinzon was a rogue agent and was not acting on behalf of the Romulan council. (Star Trek Nemesis) If this is your first time in this subreddit, please familiarize yourself with the full Code of Conduct before participating. Armor? The same can be said for Nero in the reboot: He's a Romulan with a big ship and a grudge, but he's not acting for Romulus. [–]god_dammit_daxCrewman 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children). If a romulan warbird is twice the power of a galaxy starship, why isn't the federation doomed, or at least struggling to hold back a romulan takeover? No. Another place to look is in Voyager when Tuvok is training some Maquis to be better Starfleet. The Federation probably still has more, but it's probably not as much of a blow out. Many of the conflicts we see in TNG with the Romulans are related to the neutral zone, suggesting that they're interested in defending their borders more than expanding them. Federation has several hundred member planets, Romulus seems to have 1 or 2. Literally. They clearly want diplomatic relations with them, even if they're still holding Bajor as a puppet state. The fine line between continuity and fanwank. Either way, you're right: We don't see them actually trying to start a war very often, and Shinzon was absolutely carrying out a personal grudge for his own reasons. [–]lord_haste 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children), It's hard to replace loyal, vetted commanders. What are the risks associated with transporting during the first trimester of human pregnancy? [–]butterhoscotchCrewman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children). It's a Federation of planets, encompassing many, many species and races, with a mix of them serving in Starfleet and sitting on the Federation Council (and being President). Wehraboo spotted in a Star Trek subreddit of all places. [–]nateinks 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child). The Federation has also made considerable progress in defeating the Romulan cloaking technology in the past few years; the deployment of wide area tachyon nets along the border together with advanced sensor posts has made penetrating Federation space a rather chancy proposition for the Warbird. They kept it that way by having the standoff end it a truce or stalemate somehow. [–]RandyFMcDonaldChief Petty Officer 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children). Both ships were critically damaged during the battle. They may not want too much from their neighbors they don't already have. So the federation ships are Sherman tanks? The higher ranks therefore indicate our most dedicated and productive members. Well, there's the Remans, if you want an example of a subjugated race within the Romulan Empire. More numerous, but smaller, lighter armour, cheaper and less powerful. Shakespeare's Falstaff is the most terrifying villain in Klingon theatre. Whether they've been allowed to survive and thrive? Don't accuse others of trolling because you had a disagreement. Galaxy class Length - 642.51 meters Beam - 463.73 meters Height - 195.26 meters Mass - 4.5 million metric tons D'deridex class Length - 1,041.65 meters Beam - 772.43 meters Height - 285.47 meters Mass - 4.3 million metric tons The D'deridex class warbird may have been longer, wider, and taller than the Galaxy class but it was not "larger". The D’Deridex Class Warbird was nearly twice the length of the Starfleet’s Galaxy Class but had a warp drive that was not as good or as efficient as Starfleet vessels of the time. even if numbers were the same, battle groups would resoundingly thrash tank jousters 9/10. Given that the Warbird seems to be just about the only serious warship employed by the Romulans, I assume that it is about 10% weaker than a Galaxy class and exists in much larger numbers than the Galaxy, although in rather smaller numbers than Starfleet as a whole. After initially encountering the D'deridex class warbird, the Federation speculated that it was at least as powerful as a Galaxy class and feared it was more powerful. Based on Starfleet's own rank system, you can select one of three divisions (Command, Operations, or Science) and earn pips as you move up in rank. One of those things you have to do a bit of hand-waving for, I suppose. The Warbirds power comes from its design. In addition to the Code of Conduct, please heed the following when posting new threads in this subreddit. I did a bit of research and in the movie star trek nemesis the "Remans" were said to be a slave race of the Romulans used in their dilithium mines. [–]god_dammit_daxCrewman 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (5 children). Users here are awarded special flairs for their contributions to the community. The D'deridex-class Warbirds has been at the forefront of Romulan contact with other species, and vessels of this class acted as battleships during the Dominion War. These ranks are not meant for role-playing. All threads in the Daystrom Institute must contain an open-ended prompt for discussion. I love that idea. [–]fromthecanada -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children). While it has strong weapons and is almost bigger than a Galaxy class, it is also hollow. © 2021 reddit inc. All rights reserved. The Romulans seem generally insular and very much see themselves as a superior species. Also, wouldn't such a valuable tool of propaganda have someone keeping better track of them? and join one of thousands of communities. Where are you getting this assumption from? We don't hear any Federation objections to them, either. Shallow content such as memes, gifs, image macros, links without context, and jokes are not permitted in this subreddit and will be removed. The Galas-class Surveillance Explorer Warbird is a Tier 6 Warbird Science Vessel which may be flown by Romulan Republic characters, as well as characters of any other faction.The faction restrictions of this starship can be removed by having a level 65 KDF character or by purchasing the Cross Faction Flying unlock from the Zen Store.This starship can be used from any level upon … Just found this again on my Flickr page. Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. First of all, when exactly did they say that? Would this reunification occur within the Federation, creating a Vulcan-Romulan unit that would be a potentially dominant powerhouse, or would Vulcan secede to join Romulus in a new polity? [–]nateinks 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (7 children). And that's not even bringing in weapons like the V-2, which were incredibly sophisticated, without an opposing parallel- and ultimately without military consequence. This is a Star Trek discussion subreddit, so please be mindful of straying too far from the topic at hand. [–]RandyFMcDonaldChief Petty Officer 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children). Article: Appearances of the Romulan Warbird. [–]MalachorIVCrewman 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (2 children). Perhaps their goal is to manipulate from the shadows. I am not saying it would be an easy win for a Galaxy class at all, just that I get the impression the Romulan Warbirds are overall inferior technologically speaking (not just talking shields and weapons, but all technology) to the Galaxy class ships and newer. [–]CuddlePirate420Chief Petty Officer 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child). My theory is that the Romulans have more political and technological rather than military dominion over their domain. The Romulans, on the other hand, are an authoritarian police state trying desperately to stamp down an underground movement that wants to become more like those Federation Vulcans. More numerous, better built, can take out the opposition with little difficulty. Another indicator is the Romulans reliance and almost obsessiveness with secrecy, clandestine operations, the gathering of intelligence and weapons not to mention the Cloaking System.
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